Spike in Bushwick Muggings?
Last week I met a local landlord concerned about crime and drugs in the neighborhood. He said that on his block, around the corner from me, he’s seen 3 muggings since he installed cameras on his building. Not to get picky, but the other side of his block is the blank brick wall of a paper mill, and a seemingly deserted Verizon office. There’s almost no activity on the block. It’s the perfect spot to knock a skinny, flamboyantly white kid down and take his wallet.
Today he called me up to vent: a girl was mugged last night on his block. He pointed me to the BushwickBK forum, where there are two fresh threads about people getting mugged. One poster wants to know: “Is this a spike here? Or is it that now that we are paying attention, we are noticing it more?”
I suspect a few reasons why there could possibly be a spike in muggings. There are several thousand Bushwick newbies in the last year, and they are young and clueless. They wear their ipods — a sure way to not hear an attacker coming — as they walk about town oblivious to the hazards of not paying attention to their surroundings in a rough neighborhood. Williamsburg is rife with muggings and even home invasions and burglaries. With the onset of gentrification, I’m not sure that people are being mugged more as much as they are more willing to report the muggings. That said, many muggings are not reported, and so do not show up in news stories and crime stats. “Vertigo” realized this when he went with his friend to the police station, and he was given a ridiculous runaround by the cops:
“When we went to the police station today the cop told us that we live on a bad block, and also wouldn’t fill out a report unless we could get a credit report and some kind of receipt from the phone provider…
“The police specifically lambasted her (they are not very much help) for not calling 911 (she didn’t feel like there was an emergency after the guy left), and wouldn’t help us. Basically this is what they said:
“‘The cops at the station can’t help you, if you call 911 (find a payphone, they said, since the mugger took her phone), then those are the cops that can help, and if you do call them, they can file a report whether or not you have all that useless paperwork.’”
The landlord I spoke to was trying to brainstorm with me some possible solutions. Should we get involved with the police, encourage people to report their muggings? Cops are not the answer, I said — they are the peers of the thugs that are mugging these people, except that they have badges and guns. Having cops swarming my block is not what I want — being mugged by a random thug pales in comparison to being knightsticked in the face and dragged to jail by his cousin with a badge who doesn’t like the way you were looking at him. They’ll bust us for “drinking in public” even when we’re on private property, and other bullshit like pot smoking or jaywalking or riding a bike on the sidewalk for 15 feet. No, thanks, I’d rather be mugged — it’s far less an indignity than paying taxes for the privilege of being harassed by the popo.
Should we all install cameras? was his next suggestion. A hipster-yuppie ring of steel for Bushwick? I’m for it. Even if the cameras are fake, it will induce some behavior modification in the mugger class. Case in point, the landlord mentioned local kids walking by his building, and upon noticing the cameras, going “oh shit!” and running. They weren’t likely even doing anything, but being a thug and doing bad shit is so cool, right? Let’s act like we are badasses in trouble! This is the broken, criminal culture we’re up against. Even when they don’t commit crimes, they’re ashamed that they’re not.
No, I do not think there is a silver bullet here. Cops will not fix the problem. Some security measures might discourage muggings on some blocks. But the plain truth is that until the neighborhood is sufficiently gentrified, there will be people looking to attack and mug you. I think there’s a middle stage where you are more likely to be mugged than if the area wasn’t gentrified at all, because prowling the streets for victims is more profitable — you’re more likely to find a victim with few twenties in his wallet and maybe a nice bit of technology you can pawn. We are very possibly in that stage right now.
What about fighting back? I know, you’re not supposed to. We’re all just supposed to take the reaming and say thank you, lest we get hurt worse. But people who don’t resist so many times get shot/stabbed/beaten bloody anyhow, so I don’t see how putting up a fight could actually be WORSE. Everyone agrees that muggers and other criminals go after the easiest targets — if you come out swinging, they are more likely to just get the fuck away fast. There is an off-chance they will get even more aggressive if they’re extra dumb, but there’s the same chance you’ll get knifed even if you give them what they want.
The overall effect of people fighting back will be less muggings. Break their fucking faces. Stab their necks with a screwdriver. Crush their nuts when they fall down. Gouge their eyeballs, especially girls with nails. Play “dirty” — whatever that means when you’re getting assaulted and robbed. There’s no Geneva Conventions for muggings. Make it very expensive to commit crime, and only those willing to pay the steep price will dare.
Yeah, it’s easy to talk tough talk. But I do carry items that could easily be used as a weapon all the time. Do NOT carry actual weapons, because — of course — self-defense with an actual weapon in this city is illegal. How can the cops justify endless budget hikes if nobody gets mugged?
All of this talk makes it seem like Bushwick is a warzone. It’s not. Some blocks are shadier than others and are to avoided if possible. But I have never even been looked at crosseyed by anyone in this neighborhood. Neither has anyone I know, except an obviously gay friend who is occasionally made fun of — mostly by cops. Do I live in a parallel universe? Or am I and my friends just smarter about how we carry ourselves?
January 18th, 2008 at 6:14 pm
Well,
I think I seriously have to disagree with you on a couple of points there, Jeremy (This is me, the guy who posted the thing about his roommate getting mugged. It’s me, Mike btw, you came saw my place right after the bushwickbk meetup).
I’d rather have a cop lure me off my balcony with a beer in my hand to give me a ticket than a guy wave a gun in my face and take my wallet, or 4 of them jump me and then take my phone. At least I can then use my wallet to go pay for the ticket. Or use my phone to call in the complaint (which will go ignored).
I have been thinking about this, and I think there’s probably a crime spike along gentrification lines (this is a hard one to map, but if I could just get some data I think it would be an interesting project to map crime vs rent over time), as those are the confluence of people with cash and crimes. They call an area off the morgan stop “the ATM” because the people there saw all these (relatively) rich kids moving in as essentially cash machines.
I will make a blog post about it soon, but as I see it, the problem here is that the cops, though they claim that they are aware of the crime hot spots, do not seem to be putting enough uniformed officers there. I mean, if you watch them, you see that every time a school gets out, there’s a bunch of officers deployed around the routes that kids take. They know that teenagers, in rebelliousness want to assert themselves and also they want to protect kids walking home (case in point, the people behind us in line were two kids who had their cell phones and PSP’s taken on the way home by two older teenagers).
I think of 3 general tactics that need to be used in unison:
1. Cameras, you’re right about. it will help to have cameras, but the problem with cameras is that they need light, so you gotta install lights. Muggers count on fear, I think, because people are so much more malleable that way. The darkness adds to that fear.
2. Cops,
Come on, my chances of getting mugged go down seriously when I’m standing next to a cop. Police ignorance is annoying, also when they flex the little power given to them to annoy you, but i’d rather have one around than the 4 or 5 muggers that their presence would deter.
3. This is the big one: People.
Back when I lived in Williamsburg, like 5 years ago, a girl was having her purse taken from her on the street (this is southside, so at the time gentrification was just getting there). She screamed for like 10 minutes straight until everyone started coming out on the street and the guys scrammed. New York’s per capita crime rate isn’t so low because we have such awesome upstanding citizens, but rather because we just have so many of them. The unfortunate problem with the city deciding to leave that block (Jefferson st between irving and wyckoff) zoned as Manufacturing is that there are less people there to watch out for you. I know the people up and down my block, and I am not afraid of anyone once I get here. So how do we keep people on the lookout in those areas?
I say, take some of these exorbitant fucking real estate taxes I’ve been paying and get those cops, those cameras out there, but also we gotta figure out a way to organize, to get the people to get the attentions of someone. This is what sucks, read this article.
They have put in a ton of new cops in places that are high crime, but if we don’t get to report those crimes, then we don’t have a way to get cops there. So we need to make a notice that it should not be such a hassle to report crimes. Simple. Maybe if we could get Bloomberg’s eyes off of the presidency for a while, or get enough people together for a rally that’s big enough to get the presses attention, then they will notice. It’s community organization. We could get Make the Road by Walking involved too, since it’s obvious that the main reason the cops don’t care is because the people here are poorer/minorities? They have such a high barrier to reporting crime for that reason (come on, you gotta bring in a phone bill to report a mugger taking your phone?!?)
Let’s figure something out. This is a great reason to have a community like BushwickBK, we can get something done.
January 18th, 2008 at 6:53 pm
Sorry Mike (of course I remember you!), your exorbitant property taxes are already being used elsewhere, like to pay to enforce the laws that keep mugger rent low.
But seriously, I actually mostly agree with you, especially on the cameras and even the effects of a higher population.
I do not want cops, because even if they do leave us alone, I do not want to feel like I live in a concentration camp. I resent the soldiers in the airport with their huge guns for the same reason. I do not want to live in that kind of security state. Cops on every corner? That’s scary. People hate that. That’s menacing, and worse for attracting new people to a neighborhood than a few muggings here and there could ever be. “Why do they need cops on every corner?” they would ask. How often do people even get mugged? It’s worth paying 60K/yr or whatever cops make now per corner just to prevent a rare mugging? Seems like a huge misallocation of resources.
Involving Make the Road? Why do gentrifier liberals feel so guilty for their very presence that they look for any way they can to involve this bizarre organization that hates you and addresses all the wrong roots of all the problems of Bushwick’s extant “poor” community? It does a disservice to this neighborhood by discouraging business, discouraging employment, and discouringing development. I’m all for organizing but I am not interesting in joining forces with a semi-communist group under the thumb of a control-obsessed Catholic cleric. Besides, why would they want us to not get mugged? The lack of crime opens the path to more gentrification, which is Evil.
We can make our own organization, which could be concerned with fostering more secure streets and beautification. God knows asking for help from CB4 is a waste of time — unless all you have is time. We can be proactive and do for ourselves. Let’s brainstorm in the forum.
January 18th, 2008 at 7:07 pm
I really get upset about this mugging or hearing of any muggings. Maybe it’s because I have seen it happen too many times. No-one should have to live under the suspicion of being a victim of violence.
I am a real proponent of cameras. We have several in and around our building. They have come in handy several times where tenants and the super can attest to that. We had a band member inadvertently forget an expensive amp on the street (at 4am, tired after a gig) and we successfully got it back because we recognized the passerby (24 Hrs after the fact) who took it. We also had unauthorized appropriations (theft) at two other times and got those items back as well. The police have also used our video to track or document incidents that have occurred near our residence. In that same light, a few weeks ago, we had a 20+ Caucasian male jumped near our building, struggle with the perp, our super came outside, startle the perp, everyone scattered and couldn’t have the police pursue the attackers because the victim was nowhere to be found. We had the video but the dude never reported it, hence, no crime. Vertigo is right! All crime needs to be reported.
Here’s my 2 cents:
Real recording Camera systems can help and can be purchased between $300.00-500.00 (u’ll need a PC). Fake Cameras are $10.00. They could prevent the crime if the bad guys know their being watched.
Report all crimes to the police. They are responsible for the stats and will have to justify and respond to any neighborhood crime spikes. Get names and be factual. No cop or person wants to be unduly noted, even if only on the internet, for being insolent, inappropriate or incompetent.
Last of all, be observant and be smart and be careful, this ain’t Kansas. It would be interesting to see the times and hot spots for these crimes.
Maybe we can create a safe or watched zone, much like the old “neighborhood watch”, done by residents, but electronic. If you have technology, use it!
January 18th, 2008 at 7:37 pm
I have been mugged but not recently (2003). It’s a traumatic experience even if no violence is involved.
Most of the streets between Irving and Wyckoff are barren. Be very careful walking down those streets. Starr seems to have more traffic than the others at night.
I think this is because it is slightly more residential, there’s a manned subway entrance on Starr, cameras on Starr by the park, businesses that are open at night–occasionally even late (Bushwick-Starr performance space).
For others in the area, you might want to walk to walk to other main streets, eg Dekalb on your way too and from the subway.
Also, if it’s super late, walking in the middle of the street allows people in residences on both sides of the street to see you if you need to start hollering and they look out their windows.
Clearly, walking around with headphones on at night is dangerously ignorant.
January 18th, 2008 at 7:50 pm
and finally… sorry folks but there’s a reason why Bushwick is cheap (and should be even cheaper frankly), it’s dangerous. crime stats are crime stats and ours are high.
January 18th, 2008 at 8:04 pm
I was always suprised how many more muggings seemed to be happening in places like Prospect Heights, based on reports on the brookynian forums.
It seemed Bushwick was not as covered in the itchy rash of muggings. But yyyyyeah, if no one is reporting them or really calling them out, who knows.
Keep your eyes open and the blogs full of details if anything happens yo you.
January 18th, 2008 at 9:17 pm
Jeremy I completely agree with you, it’s not like you’re going to get mugged every time you walk out of your apartment. I’ve lived here 5 months and not a single bad thing has happened to me in the area (I was mugged in E. Flatbush). usually when I’m out late at night I’m drunk as hell anyways so I will put up a fight if anyone steps near me. I like the way bushwick is right now, I don’t want cops all over the place although a few here and there would be nice, it makes you feel safer. But then again in 10 years when Bushwick is “the next Williamsburg” you’re going to look back and be like “wow, I was part of Bushwick when it was known as the hood, I went through all the rough times” and people will be like “WOW! That’s awesome”
In conclusion to my drunken ramble, I think cops would only do Bushwick worse, it wouldn’t be a natural environment and although it may be safer it would not be the same.
January 18th, 2008 at 10:57 pm
Hi. I am Asian who are introducing apartment in Bushwick which is located between Jefferson St and Irving Ave. I have read these reports and I guess I have to really careful if I decide to rent the apartment(next to store who sells chicken, turkey…..), right?
Do you have any suggestions for me?
I think that it is dangerous to live.
January 19th, 2008 at 1:07 am
It really does leave you with a pretty bad taste in your mouth. It really sucks cause, although it’s a cliche, but it really comes when you least expect it. I do agree that cameras would probably be good to have in the neighborhood. Would have certainly helped last night. There was a good thing tho, my school called me today and told me someone in bed stuy had found my license, alumni card and insurance card. Which is nice.
January 19th, 2008 at 3:19 am
Yasu, as I said in the thread, I am an asian guy and no one has messed with me for all the time i have lived here (admittedly I am the most kickass asian guy on the street, which is why they call me El Chino, or maybe because they think that all asians are chinese. Either/or)
Still, follow everyone’s advice about walking around. And also, let me know if you do move in there, as that would make us neighbors. We could have bento or something.
January 19th, 2008 at 4:16 am
Hey Jeremy,
I mention make the road because they are a community organization, and I think while Bloomberg is trying to show how awesome he would be at running the country if he was awesome at running the city, maybe he would want to show he listens where there’s crime.
So press matters, I guess, and the more people the more press. I think if you just make it a point to say, “hey, here’s some people oppressing minorities by not making it easy for them to report crime, by not asking the cop who works at the tiny window where you submit your report if he speaks spanish before putting him on the job.”
I think that since there are common goals, we can work toward them, maybe I’m just naive. I mean we can still go at each others’ throats over gentrification, but let’s get rid of the crime first.
That, and quite frankly hipsters suck at rallying, just like they suck at voting. My friend mocked me pretty viciously for talking about those troutman lofts and the accompanying rally, because I said “I was gonna go, but I got invited to a brunch”
January 19th, 2008 at 3:45 pm
“No cop or person wants to be unduly noted, even if only on the internet, for being insolent, inappropriate or incompetent.”
I have yet to meet a Bushwick cop who is anything other than those things - in spades.
We had our beat-up vehicle stolen a few weeks back, and were given the run-around by the local precinct. It’s not like we expected the cops to *care*, but we needed a case number for the insurance. Just trying to get them to take a statement took two days.
Our building has had two police visits since New Year’s because of a violent tenant. The cops don’t even want to come into the building to deal with it. During their last visit, the tenants who called in the complaint were not only ‘outed’ by the cops IN FRONT OF THE VIOLENT TENANT, but were told not to ‘bother them with nuisance complaints’.
These assholes make the LAPD look like saints.
January 20th, 2008 at 1:57 am
Ok, well I spent all night talking to my friend who works murder cases in Queens. He’s kind of a downer describing stuff like all the bodies he has to look at, and talking to the killers, etc.
ANYHOO, he has given me some advice about how to get the police’s attention. I should have written it down, I will call him soon, but essentially there’s a meeting kind of a thing where the police have to meet with the people. The higher ups meet there, and that would be a good place to make a ruckus about what’s going on. Apparently that’s where the people who can change things will be. I forgot what it’s called though (precinct meeting?) i dunno, i will find out, and try to organize something.
There’s apparently a lot of suppression going on, partly because New York wants to be well known for its low crime, so they are trying to make it hard to file reports, therefore when they hit the streets they don’t know which streets to hit.
January 22nd, 2008 at 4:00 pm
I feel very strange posting anything. I’m definitely one to only read and think about what others have written. But alas, I was mugged last night. It was an attempted mugging anyway and sure as hell the scariest thing I’ve ever experienced.
You hear about people being mugged in the area. You try to play is safe and be aware, except this was on MLK day, it was 8pm and it was on the side of Food Bazaar on Manhattan Ave and the corner of Moore Street. There were people all around, and not a single person stopped to check on the poor little white girl who was being dragged by the purse all over the sidewalk in the fetal position screaming “Help me!”
They gave up. It wasn’t that I was fighting back. I wanted to give them my purse, but it was stuck around my neck and I couldn’t get it off while the damn bastard was dragging me on the floor with it while his 5 buddies in ski masks watched.
The thing is, these kids will never get caught. They didn’t even run away, they just gave up because I was putting up too much of a fight and making too much noise to be worth their time.
But what gets me is that the men and women loading their cars full of groceries 15 feet away didn’t do a damn thing. Did anyone think to call the police without getting involved. How about the big, fat security guard for the supermarket that came trotting along after I collapsed at the entrance of the parking lot? Where was he when someone was being violated in an area he’s supposed to be protecting.
Frankly, the biggest problem with Bushwick is that crime is accepted. Even the cops have come to accept that the crime isn’t that big of a problem anymore. “It used to be worse a few years ago, it isn’t so bad anymore” That is NO WAY to comfort a person who body is covered in bruises because some 17 year old kid decided she was an easy target.
I’m not a stupid girl. I grew up in Brookyn, I went to high school in Coney Island. I’m no stranger to crime and what someone needs to do in order to be safer even in the not-so-safe neighborhoods.
The problem is that these muggings are being done by the delinquent kids of the neighborhood who have nothing better to do. Do you see the old women carrying laundry being mugged? Or the young hispanic mother with her kids being mugged? NO! Everyone in this neighborhood knows everyone else and they’re mugging the outsiders, the young professionals who can’t afford to live in the better neighborhoods because being an investment banker and slaving away 90 hours a week wasn’t an option.
The situation is unfair. Young professionals are being forced into these neighborhoods which offer cheaper rents but none of the security because we’re outsiders. We didn’t grow up here, we didn’t hang out on the street corners with these kids. Instead we’re just pathetic victims ready to taken for what little we may have.
Sorry for the rant, but I’m basically done with this neighborhood. I’d rather move back to Coney where a girl can fend for herself because she may know a person or two. Bushwick will be changed sooner rather than later. They’ll tear down those damn projects and we’ll see whose the victim in the end. Till then, I’m going to carry my pepper spray in my pocket and God help anyone who dares to try me again.
Be safe, everyone. May this never happen to anyone else, anywhere.
January 22nd, 2008 at 4:49 pm
Wow. I’m really sorry that happened to you, J. This is what I keep telling people — East Williamsburg around the Montrose stop is far more dangerous and menacing than Bushwick proper. You can never overcome the poison culture that festers in the projects. Until they are blown up and swept away, the areas around them will be worse places to live than areas where there are no projects. Bushwick between Flushing and Myrtle is safer than East Williamsburg by the projects.
People have this idea that closer to the city = safer. It’s simply not true. I mean, you been on D Street in Alphabet City lately? I didn’t think so.
January 24th, 2008 at 1:54 am
J,
My heart jumped reading your post. I used to walk down to the Food Bazaar a few times a week - usually in the evenings/at night - but stopped before Xmas because I was ALWAYS harassed. There’s something about that strip that is a free-for-all, and you’re right - no one cares. The only reason I was not mugged was pure luck - a cop car happened to drive by and it scared the creep off.
You’re right with the ‘no one cares’. I may be caucasian, but I purposely dress like a homeless person when I run errands in the neighbourhood. Baggy surplus clothes, no make-up, hair in a hat, glasses - plus I’m almost 40 years old! No one would ever mistake me for a ‘hipster’ type - but I’m still targeted.
And I can’t help but feel at times that my neighbours HATE me because I’m not Hispanic or African American. This is the only neighbourhood I’ve lived in - in 12 cities in 5 countries - that I’ve felt completely alone. The locals seem to hate us, and the cops are USELESS.
I know this may sound stupid, but after 4 years here, I feel a self-righteous ANGER. My husband and I are not ‘hipsters’. We don’t live in some over-priced loft. We support the neighbourhood. We shop in the local stores every week, we order from the local eateries - even when they suck. We do our best to make this our home.
Our beat-up car was stolen last month. I get called ‘white bitch’. I’ve been shouldered and spit on just in the past two months. The locals don’t pull this shit with my husband because he’s a biker. I’m a petite female so they know they can get away with it.
Thankfully, you were not physically injured, and anger is a GOOD thing. You are more patient than I am. Our lease is up soon and we’re debating whether we should stay here.
And while pepper spray can be awesome - if the wind is blowing the wrong way, you’re screwed. Check into getting a carrying permit, or get a new best friend in Jersey with a delivery address. Then you can order a stun gun and have it delivered there.
January 24th, 2008 at 4:30 pm
jeez.
Prospect Heights mugging map.
January 24th, 2008 at 6:57 pm
Not just Prospect Heights, but fancy schmancy Park Slope, where people pay $3 million for houses.
February 1st, 2008 at 4:38 pm
Projects are disgusting, and it’s a physical, city-planning problem…
Because if people live like animals, then they behave like animals.
The buildings look like Ceaucescu’s Romania!
March 3rd, 2008 at 11:14 am
Have you ever thought about staying in your own freakin neighborhood? You’re gentrifying people out of their communities (and intend to! “..until the neighborhood is sufficiently gentrified..”) and expect them to be happy about it?! You don’t care about your neighbors. Have you tried to talk to anyone besides other white hipsters trying to look like homeless people? You don’t care about your neighbors, your neighbors don’t care about you.
Jeremy, you would not prefer to get mugged than get a ticket for drinking. That’s presumably why you wrote a piece on muggings rather than tickets. Drinking outside is illegal in NYC unless you have a permit, anywhere you go, so go to Europe if you want to do that. I’m sure you can afford it. You probably have no idea what police harassment is if you are a white boy. The people of Bushwick are antagonized everyday and arrested for things like smoking a cigarette before going into the subway, and are sometimes held for 2 days. You and your $25 ticket is nothing.
Poverty and crime are societal problems, yes. Moving people out of their homes or moving into their neighborhoods does not fix anything. It merely pushes it somewhere else. A lot of people that used to live in Williamsburg were forced to Bushwick, and they will most likely be forced to Queens.
So all of you on this website can go to hell. No one wants to hear your inconsiderate racist whining. Go back to the ‘burbs and you won’t have to look at the “disgusting” projects ever again, deal with “dumb” thugs or look at people living like animals. You refined bunch, you.
March 3rd, 2008 at 11:18 am
One more thought: These muggings have always happened in Bushwick. And yes, Mexican people, Latin people and black people get mugged. The outrage and self-pitying happens when white people get mugged. You should have seen Bushwick in the 80’s.
March 3rd, 2008 at 12:56 pm
Hey Diana,
Blow it out your self righteous ass.
Thanks,
The Neighborhood, old and new.
March 3rd, 2008 at 1:02 pm
Diana, it’s sad that you think your tired anti-gentrification rantings are fresh ideas that nobody here has yet heard. I’ll ignore them and address your comment to me
Jeremy, you would not prefer to get mugged than get a ticket for drinking. That’s presumably why you wrote a piece on muggings rather than tickets…You probably have no idea what police harassment is if you are a white boy.
thusly:
I have written several pieces on tickets and the police. But you assume that anything you have not seen does not exist — quite a problem when attempting to make a point, no? I actually DO know what police harassment is like, but I have certainly brought up the disproportionate “justice” suffered by non-whites. So stuff a sock in it, hag.
March 3rd, 2008 at 3:18 pm
And your arguments aren’t new either. Nor your actions. It’s called racism.
March 3rd, 2008 at 4:37 pm
I’m bored at work so…can you please point out said blatant racism? And can you please explain your facts/evidence that we don’t know our neighbors, or just aren’t interested in them etc?
Cuz I could point out where it’s plainly obvious that you are a self righteous overly politically correct, just out of college, shrill muckracker who doesn’t even live in the area and decided to dredge up an old thread just to give yourself the satisfaction of calling out perceived racism, thusly making YOURSELF feel better. I don’t think you really give a shit.
But hey, I could be wrong. Just like you are wrong.
March 3rd, 2008 at 4:41 pm
That’s right, eeeeeeverything’s racism. Everything in the world is racism if Diana doesn’t like it. She can’t say exactly how, but she’s convinced of it.
March 5th, 2008 at 10:55 am
blah blah. wah wah.
March 5th, 2008 at 11:19 am
the projects are lovely this time of year, and everyone who lives there just loves it. thank god people like diana are helping thugs, too. dumb thugs need the most help!
mexicans (AND latins!) who get mugged aren’t outraged by it? well, i know who i’m mugging next time, screw the white folks, i’m gonna mug people who are less likely to put up a fuss! because, you know, this makes so much sense.
March 5th, 2008 at 12:08 pm
Wow, good point, Diana. You’ve certainly got amazing followup. If challenged on anything just say blah blah wah wah.
Bye now. Come back the next time you need to make yourself feel superior, mmmk?
March 5th, 2008 at 2:41 pm
Why would you move to a neighborhood you don’t like and try to make it serve you? Why don’t you just move to a neighborhood you do like?
If you don’t like black and brown people, which is obviously the subtext, why live in New York City, in a neighborhood where people of color live? If you want evidence for your racism, just look at the comments made about Make the Road by Walking. To me your perspective smacks of entitlement. I ask you to ask yourselves sincerely: why are people poor?
The area near the Morgan L IS an industrial, manufacturing area full of warehouses. WHY WOULD YOU THINK IT WOULD BE SAFE? That just doesn’t make sense.
It’s sad to me to see such hateful paranoid smut passing as legitimate. I’m sorry to hear that you got mugged or fear getting mugged, but I’m also sorry to hear your superficial social analysis.
As far as the projects are concerned, if you want to know more about the history of urban development and why things are the way they are, I suggest you research slum clearance, Title I and its secret brokering, and theories of the radiant city.
I also suggest you do your homework on Bushwick, if you’ve chosen to make the area your home. Learn about the waves of immigrants who the neighborhood has supported over the last century: German, Italian, Puerto Rican, Black Muslim, and currently Mexican, Ecuadorean, Columbian, Dominican, etc.
Do us all a favor and place yourself in the context of history! You might find you actually like the people you live among, and have more in common with us than you thought.
March 5th, 2008 at 3:29 pm
whoa i think i just went back in time
March 5th, 2008 at 3:44 pm
Ahhhh, the innernet.
An infinite loop of assumptions, misreadings, and jumped conclusions.
Not to mention an amazing teaching tool. I don’t like black or brown people? How did i not know that?!?! Empty areas may not be all that safe? What?! And before this thread I would never have thought to learn or understand anything about the neighborhood I’ve CHOSEN to live in for the past 4 fucking years.
March 5th, 2008 at 11:14 pm
Much of my post was directed towards Jeremy. If it doesn’t apply to you, I don’t know why you’re getting so defensive.
And if I was defensive in calling the article and the subsequent posts from others racist, I ask you to see where I am coming from, because there is a huge racial component involved in the dynamics of living in Bushwick. “Case in point”:
“Case in point, the landlord mentioned local kids walking by his building, and upon noticing the cameras, going “oh shit!” and running. They weren’t likely even doing anything, but being a thug and doing bad shit is so cool, right? Let’s act like we are badasses in trouble! This is the broken, criminal culture we’re up against. Even when they don’t commit crimes, they’re ashamed that they’re not.” -Jeremy
Um, ok. No. If you were constantly criminalized, how would you feel about being on camera? Even more mistrusted? Matt, you talk about “an infinite loop of assumptions, misreadings, and jumped conclusions”–I ask you, where did it begin?
Also, why did you call Diana “hag”? What did you mean by it or think it would accomplish? You (Jeremy) write that Diana is convinced that everything she doesn’t like is racist, but can’t exactly say how. If she didn’t point out exactly how, that’s because it’s obvious that your comments have been racist. I could go on and on.
Anyway in the passage I quoted earlier, Jeremy uses the language of “us” and “them.” I use that language too, and I know what I mean when I use it; I’m curious what you (Jeremy) mean when you use it.
March 7th, 2008 at 9:32 pm
this is how i see it…people in the area are generally poor. the economy sucks. when people see that others with considerably higher incomes are moving in and possibly making things moer expensive, that can trigger alot of anger in the community.
i’m not justifying what’s happening but it’s just the way of things. how do you stop it? remain alert. quit it with the ipods. remember that you did move into bushwick and it hasn’t been considered a nice neighborhood in probably over 30 years.
you want to be more safe? the reality of the situation is that you should move somewhere else.
March 7th, 2008 at 9:45 pm
“You can never overcome the poison culture that festers in the projects. Until they are blown up and swept away, the areas around them will be worse places to live than areas where there are no projects. Bushwick between Flushing and Myrtle is safer than East Williamsburg by the projects.
People have this idea that closer to the city = safer. It’s simply not true. I mean, you been on D Street in Alphabet City lately? I didn’t think so.”
….not to stir up any already tense drama…but the following quote does ring as a little bit racist to me. i mean you’re allowed to have an opinion. but saying the projects should be blown up and swept away? where do you get off saying that?
i’m west indian american and have lived in bad bk neighborhoods and then the nicest of long island suburbs. still, i know better than to rag on people that all don’t have the capabilities to break out of the downtrodden cycle they were placed in by the city.
that kind of thinking is not going to change the mugging problem…
March 10th, 2008 at 4:35 pm
Amen Laura and rachj. Jeremy your statements assume that poverty and crime are products of buildings.
In addition, you claimed you are harassed by police the same as black and Latin men, but in a previous post you wrote,
“I do not want cops, because even if they do leave us alone, I do not want to feel like I live in a concentration camp.”
If that’s so, why introduce cameras? You don’t like police states that target you, but don’t mind if they “get the bad guys?”
Your assumptions and lack of research into Make the Road are also incorrect. They don’t hate gentrifiers or endorse crime. In fact, they welcome genuine solid white allies who are interested in justice for all people. They are far too busy to drive hate campaigns and they are far from Communist as they are funded by Citibank.
Cate, I find it condescending that you dress like a “homeless person” to go food shopping. You are probably being harassed because you look ridiculous. And leave with groceries.
Finally, Matt, I am not really interested in commenting on your meaningless retorts, as you have said nothing so far except to try and uncover my interest in this conversation. I assure you I am more invested than you as you merely try to amuse yourself at work.
When I said the outrage doesn’t happen until white people get mugged, I mean websites like this. Many white people think they are above it and don’t deserve to be treated that way. No one does - but black and Latino people live it and have little choice at times. You have the option to leave.
March 10th, 2008 at 6:44 pm
Diana said: “You have the option to leave”. What is this, South Africa in the 1980s? There’s nothing to stop people leaving Bushwick no matter what color they are. People leave all the time. Just ask the folks from Bushwick who have moved to the burbs in Long Island, Florida and Pennslyvania. Instead of living in the projects they actually like to have more space for their families with a backyard and even a driveway, and they like to send their kids to nice suburban schools. Apparently — get this — I’ve heard that a lot of the people moving away to the suburbs aren’t even white!! Who would have thought?
Make the Road By Walking advocates laws like rent stabilization, which is kind of similar to communism in that it involves the state taking away property rights and fixing the price of goods and services. It also has the unfortunate side-effect of encouraging families to stay in the urban jungle after they have had children, so they don’t lose the low rent they have become entitled to. Oh yeah, and it discourages them from acquiring property, which makes it harder to build wealth. I could go on, but I won’t.
March 10th, 2008 at 7:42 pm
Gee Andrew, I guess the suburbs are perfect and everyone should “aspire” to live there. God forbid poor people want better lives for themselves IN the city. Rent stabilization = communism? Go tell that to the Upper West side.
March 10th, 2008 at 7:47 pm
Andrew, you ask, “What is this, South Africa in the 1980’s?”
What a sincerely appropriate question. Although I believe you’ve confused sides. Not to minimize apartheid, but since you have… If there are parallels to be drawn, who are the colonizers?
March 10th, 2008 at 8:16 pm
What? You do misunderstand, don’t you? I was making the point that this is NOT South Africa in the 1980s. As such, there are no parallels to be drawn whatsoever! None! Nowhere! There is no apartheid here! And this is not the 1980s!
As far as the Upper West Side is concerned, you’ve totally lost me. I think we must be speaking two different languages, or maybe three, it’s hard to tell.
And yes, if you’re bringing up a family, I think it’s nicer to do that in the suburbs than in a housing project in Bushwick. Or even in a tenement building in Bushwick. Just my opinion, but what do I know. Leave the tenement buildings to the hipsters and raze the projects, that’s what I say - and I’m not the only one with this apparently outlandish opinion!
March 10th, 2008 at 9:19 pm
andrew u waste your breathe and energy trying to speak to the deaf.
March 10th, 2008 at 10:18 pm
Yes, you’re right derwood, I’m going to give up!
March 12th, 2008 at 10:49 am
Diana, oh hi again. I see you still have no point. And no real interest other than making yourself feel better…about yourself. Again.
Carry on. I’ll wait for you to say something intelligent, and other than repeating ’shutup whitey, other people got mugged here first. So that makes you racists to talk about being white and getting mugged’.
March 12th, 2008 at 11:14 am
There is no way to answer Laura’s comments because she has included so much ridiculous race-baiting and simplistic premises and baseless assertions I don’t even know where to begin, and I’m sure people do not want to see another 2000-word point-counterpoint comment from the likes of me.
Really, a person who says to me “If you don’t like black and brown people, which is obviously the subtext…” can simply be written off as a smear artist. I’m not interested in interacting with people who can’t debate without employing libel and lies.
March 12th, 2008 at 11:34 am
Rachj’s comments are sane and thoughtful. I do love to employ bluster in my postings — let’s recognize this. But I of course ultimately think that people are responsible for themselves, and as you suggest, the projects only encourage people to remain in the rut into which they have descended. My desire to see the projects gotten rid of doesn’t mean I wish to see harm come to the people who live in them.
But let’s be real — no matter what the roots of the problems of the projects, there’s no doubt they are crime dens. And I can’t be overly concerned about the fate of people who will not help themselves.
March 12th, 2008 at 12:13 pm
Diana went to the same slander school as Laura, I see. Her points are only refutable by exhaustive responses to every word.
“Jeremy your statements assume that poverty and crime are products of buildings.”
No, they do not. My statements assume correctly that certain buildings are more likely than others to house the poor and harbor criminals. That’s quite obvious.
“In addition, you claimed you are harassed by police the same as black and Latin men,”
No, I specifically said that I am not harassed as much as non-whites, merely that I have been harassed.
” but in a previous post you wrote,
‘I do not want cops, because even if they do leave us alone, I do not want to feel like I live in a concentration camp.’
If that’s so, why introduce cameras? You don’t like police states that target you, but don’t mind if they ‘get the bad guys?’”
All cameras are not equal. I proposed private cameras to be used to discourage crime, not police cameras used to book people for vices. And cameras are certainly not the same as police occupation.
“Your assumptions and lack of research into Make the Road are also incorrect. They don’t hate gentrifiers or endorse crime. In fact, they welcome genuine solid white allies who are interested in justice for all people.”
No, they’re interested in using the government against people they consider enemies who dare to offend their economic sensibilities.
“They are far too busy to drive hate campaigns and they are far from Communist as they are funded by Citibank.”
They’re not communist, of course that was an exaggeration on my part for effect. But they’re certainly far more radically socialist than your typical Democrat. Of course where one gets their funding has nothing to do with their political orientation. If Lenin himself wanted to give me money I’d take it — doesn’t mean I’m a communist.
“When I said the outrage doesn’t happen until white people get mugged, I mean websites like this. Many white people think they are above it and don’t deserve to be treated that way. No one does - but black and Latino people live it and have little choice at times.”
Excuse me, but as you said, nobody deserves to get mugged. Where anyone ever said otherwise, I do not know. What makes you so sure everyone here, or who got mugged, is white? That seems to be what you’re saying. The only muggings I know of were reported on this very website, and that is what prompted this post. Is it your contention that I should go out and dig up my own mugging statistics across the entire neighborhood and present them here, always making sure to say who was what race or ethnicity?
You people have made accusations of racism so commonplace that everyone now just rolls their eyes at it — even when it’s real. Ask yourself whether you’re doing anyone a favor with this line of argument.
“You have the option to leave.”
I’m not aware of anyone being a prisoner of Bushwick. In fact, don’t you argue on the other hand that people are being pushed out? Which is it?
Besides, this is MY neighborhood.
March 12th, 2008 at 1:11 pm
“I also suggest you do your homework on Bushwick, if you’ve chosen to make the area your home. Learn about the waves of immigrants who the neighborhood has supported over the last century: German, Italian, Puerto Rican, Black Muslim, and currently Mexican, Ecuadorean, Columbian, Dominican, etc.”
You left out the recent white hipster immigration.
March 13th, 2008 at 8:25 pm
I’ll repeat what I wrote in number… whoah, way up there at number 19….
If people live like animals, they behave like animals.
This goes for Jews in concentration camps, minorities in low income housing, children raised by wolves, the incarcerated, etc. etc.
What we have run into here is obviously self-righteous and overly PC weirdos who see injustice in our simply living here, as whoever we are and whatever we are, and commenting freely on our perceptions and opinions on the development of our area…
That’s the only thing “we” have in common! We are all living here, new and old alike! And while this site seems to hark back to the old hood with austerity and respect, it certainly does have eyes on the future - with acceptance and joy.
If you don’t like it and want to bitch about injustice and gentrification, why don’t you start a communist lesbian bakeshop and throw a knitting night?
If you do, I’ll send my girlfriend to spy on you. We can have some funny mock espionage shit.
March 13th, 2008 at 8:32 pm
And I really don’t think anyone can deny, or blame Jeremy for pointing out, that projects…
(don’t always, and I’ve had great walks through the projects and cool interactions in them regarding handball and other games, even the weather)…
but the projects tend to (and I say TEND to) breed a culture of animosity to those outside of it…
It might be as simple as righteous poverty, or as inclusive and violent as the Bloods.
It’s empirical observation - what science is based on and stuff.
March 13th, 2008 at 8:33 pm
* …animosity even INSIDE of it….
March 16th, 2008 at 3:09 pm
After reading this back and forth debate, all this blog is good for is finding out where restaurants and bars are. Is there really any use in arguing with jeremy??– someone who seems to always have to be right about everything he says? If someone challenges him, he gets all over sensitive and defensive like a little spoiled 5 year old. Come now man. If you really want to debate, one must actually listen to the other side. Truth be told you are a racist jeremy, your stuffy white male upbringing makes you completely blind to how derogatory you are. I agree with Laura and Diana. you speak in terms of “others” vs “us”. Putting people into groups. Once you get your wish of gentrifying bushwick, you won’t be able to live here anymore cause it will be too expensive.Then, you can start another stupid racist blog in another up and coming neighborhood. So now lets get ready for you to get overly sensitive and defensive. And lets not forget your peanut gallery of know-it-all sarcastic hipster cyberfriends to make you feel better about being an ignorant slug… However, I do like your bushwick biz map. thanks for that.
June 15th, 2008 at 1:55 pm
As someone who’s lived near the bona fide epicenter the Northside (read Bedford and North 7th St) for a long time I have to say I feel safer here because it’s whiter. I’m not white. I won’t tell you what race I am because the assumptions will flood in if I do. For a long time I’ve looked at the Graham/3rd stop as the ideal because it wasn’t ssoooooo “Troy Dyer” (character from Reality Bites) as it is here and had a nice mix that appeared (to me at least) harmonious. But after reading the comments here I now realize I was idealizing the areas east of here. I wish there were easy answers. But just quickly about cameras, they can be snuffed out with one violent swing of a baseball bat, non?
June 25th, 2008 at 12:35 pm
Not only new comers to the area get mugged but even we old timers who lived here all our lives sometimes have these event you just are in the wrong place at the wrong time. I was one night getting out of my car to enter my home when someone came up behind me and put a gun to the back of my head! told me do not move and went thru my pocketS and took my wallet. i had no problem with that part i can alway replace it but the second part of this story is pure luck and i must of had an angel watching me that night because after he took my wallet he pull the trigger on the gun and it missed fired.my first reaction was to put my hand up and see if i had a hole in the back of my head but i was in such shock that i could not react.He took off and that was that called police made a report.but the effect of the gun and missfire remanined for along time when the police acted out the event with me at the station and they showed me a gun trying to deminstrate what happened i freak on them because it all flashed back on me scared the hell out of me. well i must say for almost 6 months i would not allow people to stand behind me or surprise me. Even friend knew not to do anything to surprise me or jump out at me. it took a very long time to shake this feeling off. like i said i must of had an angel protecting me that night, talk about lucky that’s luck
July 9th, 2008 at 10:13 am
Okay I am a Mom from long Island…my son born and raised here…He just moved into Brooklyn and is looking at a storefront on Broadway and Malcom X in Bushwick to open up a possible business.
Don’t know about the area but have read your blogs and am quite scared of thought of him trying to start a business in this area…anybody have any advice or info on the above streets mentioned.
July 9th, 2008 at 10:46 am
He’ll be fine, and if he opens something good, wealthy. We all live here, after all. It’s not like we’re dodging bullets and knives every day.
July 9th, 2008 at 9:40 pm
Thank you Jeremy for your response…now your not dodging bullets and knives everyday…does that mean you are every other day? Just a joke, right?
Well thanks again and I appreciate you taking the time to write.
August 20th, 2008 at 1:35 pm
R.B., when and where exactly did the incident take place?
August 20th, 2008 at 11:41 pm
Jeremy dodges himself everyday. It’s much harder.
August 21st, 2008 at 1:50 pm
Poor people are not the problem. There are plenty of low-income people in my area of Bushwick. They are friendly, kind, considerate, and hard working. They pay market rent, they have jobs, and they are raising families. They cope with high rent and low wages by having three or four wage-earning adults (and their children) in one apartment. They appear to be recent immigrants — whether legal or illegal, I do not know. The criminals seem to be young, native born, and without jobs.
Rent stabilization is not so bad. It keeps rents affordable, not free, for households not headed up by dual-income lawyers. The rents are not so low that landlords can’t make a profit. But rent stabilized places are being phased out anyway, because “luxury” rents of $2,000 and up are becoming the norm.
August 21st, 2008 at 2:00 pm
Rent control has helped many immigrant, working-class families in New York save enough money to buy property. I can think of one such family in Queens. Father managed a garment factory, spoke only Spanish, was buying a coop for his spoiled, college-educated son, who had an entry-level job in a bank. The young man would live there and pay the maintenance, and the parents would own it.