Nightmare on Grove Street
One day a while back, we were walking on Wyckoff and noticed the building at 358 Grove Street looming in the distance. I said, “oh let’s go see what those are like.” Nothing could have prepared me for turning that corner at Grove: before me stood a huge glob of crappy stucco about 12 stories high, with a lobby set down below the street, surrounded by huge patches of gleaming white concrete parking lots devoid of any possibility of greenery. I almost said “forget it,” but I figured I might as well see the units.
Entering feels like being admitted to the hospital — quite a sterile experience. The lobby was not finished then, and they were halfway through staining the plywood panels that orange-brown color that corporate types for some reason think people associate with modern design. We tried to figure out how to access the sales office, but the elevator didn’t work, there were no signs, and nobody was around — despite the open house having been advertised.
We left that day not thinking much of the scene set by the big brown-and-creme spaceship, but assuming the finishes inside were probably pretty decent and the views from the big windows might heal all bruised architectural sensibilities.
But no. My friend went to see them himself last weekend, and though he unfortunately didn’t take any pictures, this is his report:
I recently visited the Grove condominiums, and was very dissapointed with the overall finish of the building. The facade is pretty nice, so I was expecting much better than what I saw. As you walk in the building, the lobby walls are lined with plywood. There is a way to make this kind of treatment look fabulous, but this was not it. It was an extremely cheap solution that looks like shit.
The apartments themselves were laid out pretty well, but who are you kidding with these crappy finishes? If you are asking 430K for a 2 bedroom unit this deep into Bushwick (not Williamsburg or even East Williamsburg) with the train going past your window (which is not much of a problem because the developer did do a pretty good job of soundproofing the windows), you better have nicer finishes than this: the kitchens were straight out of Home Depot, and had no storage space at all. I mean, I don’t cook much, but I still need a place to store dry food. The bathroom had some vile blue tile and really cheap fixtures.
I will say that the salespeople were great and did know their stuff, but the product is really not worth the money. At this price the finishes should definitely be luxury.
It seems others feel the same way: Brownstoner commenters chimed in with comments like “the bathrooms and kitchens are cheap and tasteless,” “the counter is really an eyesore,” and “8 ft. ceilings = ‘luxury’ condo!??”
What the hell is this developer thinking? The agent told my friend that if he’s looking for higher end finishes and better architecture, they have something planned nearby — two four-story buildings that will start around $600/sqft. Yeah, you read that right. Bushwick.
July 26th, 2007 at 10:44 am
Those prices at the Grove are unbelievable. I’m so glad that I own something. It may not be much, but it is something. If I were looking to purchase something today, I would have to start looking in Brownsville. I think that may be the only neighborhood I can afford.
July 26th, 2007 at 3:58 pm
Brownsville has a ways to go. Maybe East NY since it’s the next town over from the Wick.
July 26th, 2007 at 8:17 pm
yes the interior looks pretty cheap, but bushwick is getting it’s first sign of condo-ville. you think people from manhattan will be coming to purchase these?
July 26th, 2007 at 8:39 pm
Jill, sadly, I don’t think I could afford East NY…
July 27th, 2007 at 6:56 pm
Wait, no East NY is expensive? You’ve got to be kidding me. No, no, bushwick is still unchartered territory so far, but little by little, say about 1% so far it’s getting a decent name, so I can’t believe East NY is even on anyones radar at all.
Anyone know anyone that has moved to this area for cheap rent or purchase?
July 27th, 2007 at 7:15 pm
I can see people looking into ENY in 5 to 8 years time at least, but not for at least that amount of time.
July 27th, 2007 at 8:32 pm
Jill, Bushwick period is “respectable.” My mom’s coworkers in Florida were telling her what a good move it was for me to get a house here. 1%? Come on. There are hipsters and artists and homos and regular ass white couples on every block in Bushwick now. It’s no longer a few art students clustered in lofts around the L stop.
East New York proper is pretty much completely destroyed, as I understand it. There are projects of some kind of almost every single block. If I’m wrong, somebody correct me. If anything, the Changeling couldn’t buy a condo in ENY because there aren’t any.
However, the Cypress Hills section, between the cemetaries and Atlantic Avenue, is intact and actually really pretty. Victorian and tudor buildings and leafy, hilly streets.
July 27th, 2007 at 9:05 pm
I think the artistically-inclined white poor will look at Canarsie and Cypress Hills before they venture into ENT and Brownsville.
July 27th, 2007 at 9:07 pm
Have you walked that section of Cypress Hills or just driven through, Jeremy? I’ve been contemplating a bike ride to that edge of Brooklyn. but i don’t know anything about it.
July 27th, 2007 at 10:47 pm
MR Kraayon - I was raised in ENY and could def be down for a bike ride there - there is this killer slope called miller hill where you can do the most insane 0-60 in 2 seconds. I digress, you can find some amazing Houses ( granted some not well maintained) along Arlington Ave, Ridgewood Ave from Schenck to Linwood - and of course on Highland Blvd. IF you see the view of BK from Highland Blvd at night its pretty sweet.
The PJ factor doesnt kick in until you get near Linden Blvd or Pitkin Ave
July 28th, 2007 at 12:03 am
Actually, I have just read about it and ridden past on the J. You get a good view from the elevated tracks.
July 28th, 2007 at 12:18 am
Hey Lou,me and my riding crew try to get together once a week to go for a ride. If you want to join when we finally ride through Cypress Hills to Canarsie, feel free.
July 30th, 2007 at 6:40 pm
I think people are scared of the Broadway Junction stop, and that is the beginning of East NY.
Jeremy do you have a car, or is all this knowledge of the area from the J train.
Didn’t think you lived off the J but the L or the M, and this is going into Southern Bushwick, and not Bushwick proper I think, but I don’t know the boundaries.
July 30th, 2007 at 6:55 pm
Jill, I don’t have a car, this is all from the train and a bunch of stuff I read.
I live the same distance from the J as the L.
July 31st, 2007 at 1:19 pm
How many blocks to each. Love the idea of being close to 2 trains!
July 31st, 2007 at 1:25 pm
About a 7-9 minute walk.
July 31st, 2007 at 5:15 pm
That’s sweet. Word on the street is no one is willing to live in a fringe area and walk more than 3 blocks to the subway, which is why I asked how many blocks.
Other people I know don’t have more than 2 blocks to the train, but for some the issue is hearing the train - since there are 2 elevated trains in Bushwick!
August 4th, 2007 at 10:59 am
Those new buildings going up are so ugly and they look like they’re being designed by the same person. They have no character like some of the older buildings. I guess it’s cheaper. But I think it is important to remember that the old tenaments were constructed to house working class people who worked in what once a thriving industrial area. It was cheap and affordable. I believe that in 30 years or less most of the ancient tenaments will be gone and in their place more ugly condos.
August 4th, 2007 at 11:06 am
I lived at 75 Grant Avenue, between Jamaica and Etna Avenue. I had to take either the J train at Eldert Lane/7th Street to Broadway Junction and transfer for the A or C train to Canal Street.
I think younger people perhaps just out of college might venture to that neighborhood. But that neighborhood is considered Cypress Hills.
ENY and Brownsville will take a long time before it too is ‘taken’ over. And once it is it will be for the best.
March 6th, 2008 at 1:54 pm
I dont know what your all blah balhing about ! For the prices these are going for you’d have to be crazy not to buy here. Yeah, it does nt have a brushed stainless steel faucet made by kohler or a “Bosch” brand dish washer, but thats for the suckers who pay 600+ per sqft. And if you really need that stuff to make yourself feel better then have one installed once your in. If your creative enough you can make these places look really nice buy changing a light fixture or too in the unit. The construction is solid in this building, I know because I just decided to buy one of these and read how they are made in the offering plan booklet. As for green, they are currently working on a huge outside garden common space that looks like it will be dope. As for the “concrete that surrounds the building, thats for parking if you buy a spot for 18-20k, so you don’t get you car smashed and or pay out the ear in parking tickets. I think its very rare in this city to have some of the things that Grove offers. So to all of the dissers on Grove, Ill be sure to invite you all to my BBQ this summer for some beer and burger on the common garden space. Oh and this outdoor space is not an extra cost. BeeryGrassmass Ya’ll !!!!!! Yahhoooooo
March 19th, 2008 at 11:32 pm
To TheNewFonz
I know new home buyers develop a strong attachment to their inanimate property, so I’ll try to go easy on this crit. Your lovely new tower home is at odds with the scale and context of the neighborhood. That means look around, that building is the only thing jutting up for miles around. It is an eyesore because it is so looming. That is not to say skyscrapers are bad, because as lower Manhattan has demonstrated skyscrapers can be a beautiful thing if executed artfully. Which brings us to our next piece of criticism. If the developer insisted on creating such a mass as this tower is silhouetted against the sky, he should very well have finished it in materials that are aesthetically pleasing to look at. It is the least he could have given back to the community, considering all the dollar$$$$$ he will reap because of this development. So, to recap, yes, the building is too tall for its neighborhood; which is not so bad in itself, but heinous considering the finish materials are cheap and paltry. Not to mention, how useful is all that parking space when you are two blocks away from a transportation hub? Have you seen the traffic on Myrtle Avenue? I don’t think you will be driving anywhere to fast.
Now, on to the inside. One may be able to appreciate the developer’s gesture in turning the entry away from the building’s neighborhood context and trying to internalize the inhabitants of the building, concretely enforcing a we versus them, separating condo owners from the surrounding neighborhood renters. But that sort of thinking is very elitist if not just down right snobbish. However one views the submerged entry, it is not good design in any logical sense of the art and there are far many better ways of doing it. The main problem of the space is that it is not defensible, there are no “eyes on the street.” What that means to inhabitants of the building, and passers- by is that the entry becomes a potential spot for shady characters to lay in wait of prey. There is no room in the lobby for a door man.
Of the apartment interiors, I can only say the layouts are not spectacular, or anything to comment on. There was one line of apartments with a really large area of space wasted in the bathroom. It could have been turned into a spacious closet, but again the developer clearly demonstrates he cares much less about everything but lining his pockets. The bathroom finishes are very, very cheap. I am sure they will soon be replaced, but consider this, those cheap fixtures and finishes are rolled up into your mortgage. You can replace them, but you are still paying for them and will continue to do so for the next 30 years. And lastly, the windows, ah the windows. To add insult to injury- or is it injury to insult, this building is so very convoluted- these windows do not really open now do they? Oh sure the hopper pops out ever just so slightly admitting a whiff of outside air, but not too much that the blaring noises of the neighborhood can bring inside occupants to the realization they are not in a more genteel neighborhood. If you unfortunately happen to have a crank operated window, do open with care and sparingly.
Here’s wishing you
HAPPY DAYS
March 23rd, 2008 at 10:06 am
Like Jeremy, I’m between the L and the J. I don’t think going that far out for this money is worth it. They will start to build at our stop eventually… and it’ll be ultra-modern gross garbage, for sure.
Maybe some smart, well-connected owner will condo an industrial loft for residential (pretty tricky conversion). Otherwise, it seems our epoch of architecture is modern garbage… or worse.
I think this developer lost it somewhere along the way with his budget - as oil goes up so does everything from steel to drywall. So the cheap finishes and the same prices. Will he sell them? Maybe. Probably at a very slow pace.
March 23rd, 2008 at 10:14 am
Oh, did anyone talk numbers with the brokers to see if they would negotiate against themselves?
The owner here might be willing to take a serious haircut to just get liquid again.
March 25th, 2008 at 9:37 pm
Can anyone who purchased on Grove Street please reveal what was the purchase price? I’m curious to know if Grove Street developers are lowering prices. I noticed on the NYTs RE that they have about half the units still for sale.